Deputy Mayor: 'I’ve got an aversion to nanny state type moves'

“I expect I am going to be swimming against the tide a little bit, I don’t gamble at all, but I’ve got an aversion to nanny state type moves."

Deputy Mayor Tom Campbell has spoken against a sinking lid policy on pokie machines in Invercargill.

Invercargill’s deputy mayor has pushed back at a sinking lid approach to pokie machines in the city saying he’s averse to operating in a “nanny state”.

The council is currently reviewing its Class 4 Gambling Venues Policy, which it is required to do every three years.

An event was held at the Murihiku Marae in August that was attended by organisations involved in both operating gaming machines and dealing with the impacts of gambling.

From that hui, it was suggested a sinking lid approach be included in a draft policy document to go out for public consultation.

It was viewed as a good approach to reduce social harm from gambling.

Traditionally sinking lid means that once a class 4 gambling venue closes down and leaves the market councils will not issue any other society a licence to replace those machine numbers.

However, when the draft policy was discussed at a council meeting on Tuesday Campbell spoke against that sinking lid approach.

“I expect I am going to be swimming against the tide a little bit, I don’t gamble at all, but I’ve got an aversion to nanny state type moves.

“It seems to me if you look at the math, if you look at the arithmetic on percentages, it suggests there are about 25,000 people who gamble in the city. If you apply the percentages of those who are problem gamblers it works out to be about 50.

“So there maybe 50 people who are problem gamblers and 24,950 approximately who just do it for pleasure.

“I don’t think those odds are high enough that we should actually deny people the right to gamble if they wish to. So, I don’t favour the sinking lid policy for that reason.”

Currently there are 226 electronic gaming machines in 15 Class 4 gambling venues in the Invercargill.

Statistics indicate an expenditure of $17million on those machines in 2022.

Two venues have ceased operating pokie machines since the last policy review. The White House Hotel had nine machines and it was in a “low deprivation area” and 10 machines at Clifton Club Inn, which was in a “very high deprivation area”.

Of the 15 Class 4 gambling venues, eight venues are in areas of “very-high deprivation”, six are in “medium-high deprivation” and one is in “medium deprivation”.

A report commissioned by the Ministry of Health, Informing the 2015 Gambling Harm Needs Assessment, suggests people living in very high areas of deprivation are more likely to develop problem gambling.

Campbell received support from Mayor Nobby Clark who also was not in favour of the sinking lid approach.

Clark said he has previously managed a problem gambling organisation in the past.

He did acknowledge the amount of money being put through pokie machines was “eye-watering”.

“If the pleasure is you can afford to play the machines - knowing there are no winners on those machines, they always lose if you play long enough.

“But if that’s what people want, then it’s no different than going to the pub and spending $20, $30, $40 a week on drinking.

“I’m like Tom, I’ve come to the position that pokie machines are not a risk for most of the population, it’s only a very small percentage, about three percent of those that play are problem gamblers.

“I also support having a rethink of the sinking lid.”

Clark said his main concern, in regard to pokie machines in Invercargill, is actually where the profits were being distributed.

The ILT Foundation is the biggest player when it comes to gaming machines in Invercargill. It returned $5.8m to the community through pokie revenue for the year ending March 31, 2023.

“There’s an awful lot of benefit that comes out of the ILT Foundation that does a lot of community good that we would have to fund as a council.

“The only thing that raises some alarm for me is the level of funding that goes towards sport, I just think it’s too heavily weighted in sponsoring sport, and not enough in a whole lot of other things around arts and other areas.”

In the latest combined ILT Group year in review, it showed 31% of ILT grants for 2022/23 went to sport and 7% to arts & culture.

National statistics for gambling interventions in Invercargill show that there has been a small decline in interventions in the last two years.

Although the Nga Kete Matauranga Pounamu Charitable Trust raised concerns about the national gambling harm statistics, saying that their experience suggested numbers are higher.

Ninety of their clients received intervention within the last quarter. Nga Kete’s submission on past gambling review (2019) stated 153 individuals received either full or brief interventions, of which 89 were new clients.

Cr Darren Ludlow - who chaired Tuesday’s committee meeting - reminded his fellow elected members that now was not the time to have a debate as to what should be done.

That came after they had consulted the public, he said.

Although Campbell said the document being proposed to go out for public consultation recommended a sinking lid policy, and he suggested it should also contain the option for a cap.

Mana whenua representative Evelyn Cook said the recommendation of a sinking lid was not from council it was from the pre-engagement get-together with various organisations.

Cr Lesley Soper also asked why they bothered with pre-engagement, which involved an extensive gathering of stakeholders, if they would then say the pre-engagement meant nothing.

A motion to include both the sinking lid and cap options in the consultation document was voted in favour.

Cook, Soper, Ria Bond, and Alex Cracket voted against that motion.

November 7 was initially set down as a date for submissions to be heard on the policy, although it was pointed out that was the biggest day on the gambling calendar given it was Melbourne Cup Day.

It was decided to shift it to give operators the best chance to attend if they wish to speak to their submissions.