Record pokie machine spend concerns national health organisation
The pokie machine debate is a regular one. And on Thursday it was back in front of the Invercargill City Council where those for and against a sinking lid policy stated their cases.
A Te Whatu Ora representative has made a plea for Invercargill to introduce a “gold standard” sinking lid pokie machine policy to help reduce gambling harm in the city.
The national public health service says there was a record $17 million spent on pokie machines in Invercargill and Bluff last year, and much of that came from medium to high-deprivation areas.
Te Whatu Ora health promotion advisor Laura Pope spoke at an Invercargill City Council gambling policy hearing on Thursday where she raised the concerns.
Pope said that 14 of the 15 gambling venues located in the Invercargill, Bluff area were in medium to high levels of deprivation.
Te Whatu Ora wants to see a sinking lid policy introduced.
Traditionally sinking lid means that once a class 4 gambling venue closes down and leaves the market councils will not issue any other society a licence to replace those machine numbers.
Pope said the sinking lid policy was the most effective way to prevent gambling harm.
“Absolute caps, or the gold standard approach that we recommend, have estimated to reduce the number of electronic gaming machines by 15% and venues by 16% per 100,000 population over a period of a year.”
However, Gaming Machine Association of New Zealand representative Jarrod True pointed to data that he suggested showed the reduction of gaming machines did not actually lead to a reduction of gambling harm.
He said when a person goes to a treatment provider for gambling issues they get asked which area they belong to.
“In Invercargill city it’s pretty much stayed the same since 2017-2018. In 2018 we had 100 people from Invercargill city go to the treatment providers, 2019 it was 103, 2020 it was 95, 2021 it was 117, and the most recent data it was 101.
“So, it has pretty much stayed the same and that is what we have seen nationally. When machine numbers have dropped the problem gambling rate has plateaued.”
He added that problem gambling was just 0.2% of the adult population, and that was all forms of gambling.
For a lot of people, gambling was a form of entertainment, he said.
Those against the sinking lid policy have suggested that reducing gaming machines will simply push people online and much of the profits will head offshore, instead of being returned to the community.
About $5.5m was returned to the Invercargill community last year from pokie machine profits.
An increase in online gambling would also result in more people involved in unregulated gambling in their homes where they could not be monitored, True said.
Pope said Covid-19 was able to provide an insight into behaviour when the gaming machine venues and TABs were closed.
“During that period there was no evidence to show that the proportionate amount of people that used gambling venues went online when they closed,” she said.
However, that notion also received pushback from the Gaming Machine Association. It suggested that period did prove people do go online to gamble when venues were closed.
“We actually had a situation where all our venues were closed and the question is did people go online?
“The data is there from all of the annual reports. You look at My Lotto, in 2018 the spend was $200m when the venues were closed in 2020 that jumped up to $430m.
“Sky City has a got an offshore online casino based in Malta. Pre-Covid $250m was spent.
“If you have a look at their annual reports, post-Covid that jumped up to close to $800m.”
Wednesday’s public hearing was chaired by Cr Darren Ludlow alongside fellow councillors Trish Boyle and Ria Bond.
Earlier in the hearing Pope referred to the record $17m pokie machine spend in Invercargill as being money “lost”.
Ludlow queried that, given it did not factor in the money people won.
“Statistically I accept the majority would be invested, lost, whatever, but I’m not sure about using [$17m] as a full measurement,” Ludlow said.
When it came to the hearing panel’s deliberations Ludlow, Boyle, and Bond all supported having a cap of machine numbers in place rather than introducing a sinking lid policy.
“I am mindful of the increased poverty and depravation that our communities face, and particularly, as Te Whatu Ora pointed out, in our Māori and Pasifika communities.
“But much like the alcohol laws, I think the risks from alcohol consumption are highest from those who are drinking at home, because they are not supervised, and I think the same applies to gambling,” Ludlow said.
Boyle also felt it was best to have people in venues rather than at home gambling.
“There is merit in having the places where we have people at the same venues. We do not want to encourage people to stay at home and go online. We can’t stop that, but if we have the places where people are used to, they go for the social environment as much - possibly - for the gambling. That’s why I’m leaning towards [the cap].”
After listening to the submissions Bond acknowledged that the sinking lid policy could be a “blunt” tool and she was wary that it might change behaviours in a way they did not want it to, alluding to the shift to online.
The panel’s recommendation would now go to the council’s Wellbeing Committee before being put to the full council.
I had a good mate who gambled heavily(to me anyway) I asked him how much he spent a year,quick as a flash he said 28000.hell I thought.then I asked how much do you win about 22000.so this was my mates hobby.i do feel sad for people who are addicted to gambling.there is an up though we all benefit from great sporting facilities .who sitting somewhere grand decides on the 14 venues of high deprivation,what a pompous utterance.
If 14 of the 15 venues in Invercargill and Bluff are in areas of medium to high levels of deprivation we shouldn't be debating pokie machines, we should be debating how to make changes so our society has no areas classed as deprived of anything. From the councils point of view their focus should be on living within a budget that doesn't force ever increasing rates increases on residents until it becomes unsustainable.
Personally the odd few dollars I put into pokie machines gives me a lot more pleasure than the thousands I pay in rates and tat the end of the day the proceeds are probably spent on doing a lot more good in the community.